|Do we have free will? Why or why not (3) | Posted on July 9, 2012, 3:20 p.m.|
|For my two cents, I don't know whether or not we have it, but my answer for the other two questions is "not much".|
To expand, even if we don't have free will, it feels like we do. Choice might be an illusion, but it's a damn fine one, and good enough for everyday use, so to speak.
Morality is a little more complicated, but the main thrust of it is that without free will, morality may not even exist in any meaningful way, but that doesn't matter because it appears we're constrained to act as if it does.
A completely deterministic system is a little problematic for most forms of Christianity not only in them being wrong in saying we have it, but if we lack it that puts the guilt for every evil action squarely on God, because he's the only active agent in the system, and the only one who could've made things happen any differently.
|Christians, Atheists and Americans: What DO Mormons really believe in? (8) | Posted on July 9, 2012, 2:59 p.m.|
|On the baptize for the dead thing, there is often some misunderstanding about what it actually is, probably bears mentioning here.|
It isn't some folks performing a ritual and that automatically making your relatives posthumously Mormon. Rather, in the instance that Mormon cosmology is correct, it is offering the opportunity to be baptized to the dearly departed in question. They themselves would still have to accept. The upshot is that nobody is a Mormon who doesn't want to be.
|The circumcision "debate" (IE, crazy anti-semites vs. normal people) is over. (54) | Posted on July 9, 2012, 1:42 p.m.|
|Yea, I've heard anecdotes too, but I'm trying to get a grasp on how many actual men feel this way. Doesn't have to be really hard data, a ballpark figure or reasonably well thought out estimate would do.|
|The circumcision "debate" (IE, crazy anti-semites vs. normal people) is over. (51) | Posted on July 9, 2012, 1:17 p.m.|
|Does anyone have a rough idea of how many circumcised men regret that they had the procedure performed on them? I can't seem to find any info on that.|
|Let'discuss pizza delivery charges and pizza/wing business in general (11) | Posted on July 9, 2012, 12:08 p.m.|
Have your drivers be their own business for tax purposes. Your insurance will drop significantly.
That's not entirely legal a lot of the time. The company I work at very nearly got in some significant trouble for attempting something like that.
Even if it works though, you're just shoving the cost off on the drivers, and you'll have to pay them more to compensate.
|Let'discuss pizza delivery charges and pizza/wing business in general (10) | Posted on July 9, 2012, 12:06 p.m.|
|Why should I subsidize someone for working for a company that has crappy practices?|
Why do you subsidize the guy that doesn't? You tip one guy and not the other based on a decision he has no control over and may not benefit from. Just doesn't seem fair to me, that's all. Do what you like.
I've heard of places charging a delivery fee than taking it from the drivers.
Yea, there are costs to the business beyond the driver's vehicle costs, but I tend to think that ought to be rolled into the base price.
Anyway, that does seem to be a tough spot you're in with the wings. Only thing I can think of there is try to incentivize high profit purchases along with the wings. Get 'em to buy sodas and pizzas at the same time. Combo deals or something.
|Christians, Atheists and Americans: What DO Mormons really believe in? (6) | Posted on July 9, 2012, 11:33 a.m.|
|Well, the story goes that the Book of Mormon was engraved on the golden plates, and then buried by the prophet Moroni. Moroni later returned as an angel and revealed the location of the plates to Joseph Smith. Like other origin myths, how literally that gets taken varies from person to person.|
The Pearl of Great price is just another book of scripture.
Kolob is sometimes literally believed to be a star or planet that governs all others, but it's more common for the relevant verses to be interpreted as a metaphor for Jesus' authority. It's a pretty minor point, as far as I can tell. It never really comes up except in response to someone using it as criticism.
It's not commonly held that Jesus and Lucifer lived on Kolob, but they were spirit brothers. Jesus being the first born of the Father, and Lucifer the second. It should also be noted that we're all spirit children of God in this system. So Jesus and Lucifer are as much our brothers as they are each other's.
|If you didn't believe what you do, what would you believe? (6) | Posted on July 9, 2012, 10:58 a.m.|
|Judaism appeals to me. |
They also have a unique mix of Buddhism, Taoism, Confucianism, and ancient folk religion in Taiwan that I think I could get into.
|Let'discuss pizza delivery charges and pizza/wing business in general (5) | Posted on July 9, 2012, 10:57 a.m.|
|I never tip is a place charges for delivery. :\|
I generally do because although this guy is doin' it right, it's pretty common for drivers not to see any money from that fee. Doesn't seem fair to screw the driver because his employer is a jerk.
|can you help me with this? (8) | Posted on July 9, 2012, 10:37 a.m.|
|Yea, the flavor is sort of trivial to this drink, the point is the visuals. So, I'd go with the green apple soda, the kool-ade, and the strawberries. Probably 1 to 1 mix of the liquids.|
|first time cooking for this girl... (8) | Posted on July 9, 2012, 10:33 a.m.|
|I second the marmitako, but if you did want to stick to the snapper while keeping away from citrus and spicing it up a little, you could serve it blackened.|
Still, fish stews are usually very good, and often something that most people haven't had a lot of exposure to, which makes them more impressive.
|Christians, Atheists and Americans: What DO Mormons really believe in? (4) | Posted on July 9, 2012, 10:26 a.m.|
|Phoro actually got it pretty right for a Cliff's Notes version. |
The only thing I'd note is that while they did exclude black people for a long time under the theory that black skin was the mark of Cain, it isn't actually canonized doctrine, and it isn't an interpretation that's generally held today. Still a pretty dark spot on their history though.
Anyway, my wife is a Mormon, so if you have any specific questions, I can probably answer. Failing that, I can just ask her as well.
|Let'discuss pizza delivery charges and pizza/wing business in general (3) | Posted on July 9, 2012, 9:55 a.m.|
|Speaking for myself, the presence of a delivery fee doesn't generally affect how much I tip, but I don't know if that's common or not.|
The other thing that jumps out at me is that I don't think it's a good idea to have a split system based on order price. Generally that kind of thing confuses customers and makes them fell like you're nickle and dimeing them, which usually hurts sales.
The delivery/pickup ratio shifting towards pickups is actually good for the store, provided it is people coming in for pickup rather than just a dropoff in total volume that came from people not ordering for delivery. But assuming the numbers have been steady, that's good for the owner, bad for the drivers.
I'd probably just keep the $2 fee. Drivers like it, and I don't think the customers mind that much. Though if you really want to get rid of it, another option is to just raise the price of the pizza by a dollar or so, and have the store give the drivers their cut. Unless you're really competing on price, the hike should be ok, and the deliveries are 'free' again from the customer's perspective.
|Statute of Limitations on the Separation of Church and State? (3) | Posted on July 8, 2012, 3:24 p.m.|
|Actually, thinking about it, I'm ok with historical preservation trumping Separation of Church and State.|
Having recently spent some time in profoundly old religious building in Europe myself, I can hardly think of a greater tragedy than these structures being defaced for no better reason than some atheists with a bone to pick, inter-faith squabbles, or the like. If it takes a little government interaction to prevent that, then I'm ok with it.
|The creation Museum can't build their arc (63) | Posted on July 8, 2012, 3:13 p.m.|
|Well, 17,000 pounds is right around eight and a half tons. That's well within the cargo capacity of the old Spanish Galleons which is in the range of hundreds of tons, so I don't imagine it'd be a problem for a larger ship, all things being equal.|
I've been trying not to talk about the ark specifically, because the rest of the story is so extreme that the feasibility of the ship doesn't even enter into it. Though now that we're on it, it occurs to me that the biblical account doesn't mention storms, just rain and flooding. I've lived through a fair number of floods myself, some even fairly severe. More often than not, it's just rain that goes on for a long time. Other than the duration, the storms are fairly mild. I'd have put to sea in any moderately seaworthy ship in any one of those storms.
Given that, I don't think it's fair to say that the ark would've needed to withstand great waves and hurricane force winds. Just normal seaworthiness might have sufficed.
|The creation Museum can't build their arc (52) | Posted on July 6, 2012, 9:54 p.m.|
|On further inspection, I think I may be amalgamating things like the Roman concrete, Colosseum design, and Damascus steel together.|
Anyway, the upshot of the whole deal is that a design's modernness does not necessarily insure it's superiority. Modern stuff is often better, but if newer was always better the phrase 'They don't build 'em like they used to' wouldn't be a thing.
Doubly true of materials that have become obsolete. The advent of steel almost guarantees that we didn't reach the pinnacle of wood based engineering.
All that said, maybe you can't build a wood boat that big. I'm just saying that I don't think an old Ironclad with an outdated design and a mildly dubious 8 year career proves it can't be done, and I'd like to see someone try.
|The creation Museum can't build their arc (50) | Posted on July 6, 2012, 8:23 p.m.|
Eh, I don't think that was it. Might have been though. I'll keep trying to remember.
|The creation Museum can't build their arc (46) | Posted on July 6, 2012, 5:34 p.m.|
|I swear I remember hearing about something or another while I was in Rome, or perhaps elsewhere in Italy, where they had an ancient design for something that is superior to what we have today, and I kind of want to say we don't really know how to replicate it either.|
I'll try to dig it out of the ol' memory, but I thought I'd mention it in case anyone knows what I'm talking about.
|Are there any here that won't play particular games for religious reasons? (99) | Posted on July 6, 2012, 1:14 p.m.|
|So what is the deal with wands then?|
|Republican representative didn't realise 'religious' doesn't just mean Christian (7) | Posted on July 6, 2012, 12:28 p.m.|
|It does illustrate for people like this representative why freedom of religion and seperation of church and state are important.|
If a law you want would rub you the wrong way in the case that it primarily benefited a religion you are opposed to, it's probably a bad law even if your own religion is the primary beneficiary.
One should always judge these things as if you are not part of the dominant group.
|The creation Museum can't build their arc (38) | Posted on July 6, 2012, 10:37 a.m.|
To be fair, the Ph.D in question has a BS degree in naval architecture from Seoul National University and PhD degree in applied mechanics from University of Michigan, Ann Arbor. He was working as principle research scientist at what is now Maritime & Ocean Engineering Research Institute in Korea, and is now General Director there.
He is a legitimate expert working in his field.
That said, his study appears to be primarily concerning the shape of the craft in terms of seaworthiness, and I don't see that he claimed you could actually build the thing without it leaking like a sieve. Still, it rubs me the wrong way to dismiss him out of hand when he's exactly the kind of legitimate scientist we should, and do, cite in other arguments.
|Blaming God for actions we take due to free will (49) | Posted on July 6, 2012, 10:13 a.m.|
In the same sense a woman who fails to wear a burqa bears secondary responsibility for being raped.
Sure, I'll agree with that. As long as you agree not to overload 'responsibility' into things like 'fault' or 'guilt'.
It's unfortunate that you picked such an emotionally charged counterexample, since it makes it hard to look at the mechanics of the situation dispassionately, but we'll go with it. The point was that there is always different levels of responsibility for events, their relevance and morality is highly dependent on the details of the situation.
In the fruit thing, God's secondary responsibility is trivial, as it has nearly no effect on anything. In your rape example, the woman does bear secondary responsibly in that she created a situation that was dangerous for her, but this responsibility is of a form such that she bears no guilt or fault, and in no way 'deserves' what comes of that situation.
A third example is the toddler and the light socket. The toddler made the choice, and so bears primary responsibility, but the choice was innocently uninformed and thus the responsibility is trivial. The parent bears secondary responsibility, but that is the ethically important one, as the parent knows there are bare light sockets and the toddler cannot make a good decision regarding them.
|Blaming God for actions we take due to free will (9) | Posted on July 5, 2012, 5:37 p.m.|
That's probably where you're going awry. I don't see any reason to infer that this person is any different from the hypothetical 'reasonable person'. You're also assuming there is any 'gravity' to the situation to be understood. The hypothetical doesn't mention any.
Yes, the hypothetical resembles a biblical story in a couple of respects, and opinions about this hypothetical would inform opinions about that story, but we're not there yet. Don't jump ahead. You should know by now that OW is a very point-by-point kind of guy, so don't skip any steps.
|Blaming God for actions we take due to free will (7) | Posted on July 5, 2012, 5:31 p.m.|
|I'm not reframing anything at all.|
I gotta go with OW on this one. The hypothetical involves a normal person, an orange, an apple, and a command. No toddlers, not light sockets, and no danger of any kind.
|Blaming God for actions we take due to free will (3) | Posted on July 5, 2012, 5:02 p.m.|
|I don't feel like the hypothetical is fleshed out enough. It's kind of odd to use the word 'blame' for an action that doesn't have any apparently negative consequence.|
In any case, as worded, I'd say primary responsibility for the choice lies with the person, but God does bear secondary responsibility for creating the situation. Secondary responsibility is sort of trivial in this case though.
|The creation Museum can't build their arc (16) | Posted on July 5, 2012, 4:11 p.m.|
|I'd be ok with anything reasonably seaworthy that looks like it was designed with an eye towards carrying livestock. I don't need an exact ark replica, I just want to see 'em build a wooden boat that big and have it float. Bonus points if they do it with period appropriate tools.|
Religious issues aside, that'd just be a heck of an accomplishment.
|Most amount of food you ever ate in one sitting? (7) | Posted on July 5, 2012, 3:48 p.m.|
|84 medium sized shrimp, last time Red Lobster had that all you can eat shrimp deal.|
I'd say the breakdown was about 70% breaded ones, 20% scampi, 10% skewered.
Had a salad and one of those cheesy biscuits as well.
|The creation Museum can't build their arc (14) | Posted on July 5, 2012, 3:45 p.m.|
|See, this is why I want them to actually try to build one that they can put to sea. Nobody's in the market for large wooden boats these days, so the only way we're going to see if it's possible is if a religious institution does it.|
|The creation Museum can't build their arc (7) | Posted on July 5, 2012, 2:12 p.m.|
|Sure, if you use steel and everything. Ark would still be cool to see for the same reason I'd rather see the Spruce Goose than an A-380.|
|The creation Museum can't build their arc (5) | Posted on July 5, 2012, 1:49 p.m.|
|Yea, presuming they were successful, I'd go see it just to appreciate it as an engineering feat. I'd definitely be there if they actually tried to put the thing to sea.|
|ITT: Interesting religions of traditions parallel to my own that are novel to me (5) | Posted on July 5, 2012, 1:36 p.m.|
|I'm also a big fan of Raven as a creator god in the religions of the people of the Pacific Northwest.|
I'm a sucker for a trickster god, and one that is also creator is very compelling. The idea of this creator deity having to play tricks and steal the various features of the world that he didn't know how to create himself is wonderfully fascinating.
|Cherry-picking from the bible. (46) | Posted on July 5, 2012, 1:13 p.m.|
|To use a mathematical example, we'll assert that x=2 and y =3.|
If we then look at an equation saying x+y=4, and conclude that y must be equal to 2, it's not cherry-picking to throw out the previously accepted premise that y=3.
|Cherry-picking from the bible. (45) | Posted on July 5, 2012, 1:09 p.m.|
|Indeed, the specific example of the age of the Earth is beside the point. What he was saying is that it's a pretty common, and not at all fallacious, practice when examining a set of premises for validity to accept them as true, then see if any contradictions arise from them.|
To dismiss apparent contradictions by simply citing that the premises have been accepted as true short-circuits the process.
It is pretty common for folks to not fully articulate the question, but it usually doesn't take much reading between the lines to see when this sort of thing is going on, and when it is, I don't think it's fair to call it cherry-picking when they get to the point of invalidating one of the accepted premises.
|ITT: Interesting religions of traditions parallel to my own that are novel to me (2) | Posted on July 5, 2012, 1 p.m.|
|I've always like the sort of localized polytheistic religions. I think the Celtic religion is a pretty good example of that.|
Worship the local god, and don't worry overmuch about the other ones, because they don't live near you. It's particularly interesting when it comes a long with a kind of animism and nature veneration. In a sense, these people could see their gods all around them.
|I'm having a faith crisis (166) | Posted on July 3, 2012, 4:43 p.m.|
|Yea, I think we're on the same page. Nice when that happens.|
|Are there any here that won't play particular games for religious reasons? (60) | Posted on July 3, 2012, 4:28 p.m.|
|That's another one. I never could roll a dark side character in KOTOR. Tried a couple of times, but not being able to identify with the character due to them making wrong choices took the enjoyment out of it for me.|
|Are there any here that won't play particular games for religious reasons? (58) | Posted on July 3, 2012, 4:08 p.m.|
|Guess I'm a soulless bastard because I could easily gun down civilians or commit atrocities in a videogame.|
Na, that's not what I'm saying. Everybody experiences their fiction in different ways, but just like you're not a soulless bastard for gunning down the civvies, I'm not a sad sack that can't tell fiction from reality for sparing them.
I see from your second paragraph that you get the point though. Folks just draw the line in different places is all.
That said: If you blew up your wingmen in X-Wing, you are a bad person.
|Are there any here that won't play particular games for religious reasons? (56) | Posted on July 3, 2012, 3:59 p.m.|
|I think we can all separate fiction from reality right?|
Well, having an emotional reaction to art is a big part of why art exists in the first place, and like merucryink said, fictional storytelling is a part of that.
Hating pokemon or whatever is kind of silly, but there's actually not much of that going on in this topic. Most people who say they avoid stuff are saying they do so because it makes them feel a way they don't want to feel.
|Are there any here that won't play particular games for religious reasons? (52) | Posted on July 3, 2012, 3:34 p.m.|
|De Evolution posted...|
I find this topic sad.
In what way? I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on the subject.
|Do personal politics matter in restaurant/fast food choices? (15) | Posted on July 3, 2012, 2:55 p.m.|
|For the 'I don't care' folks, how far would it have to go before you would care? When is a company with tasty food bad enough that you won't buy it anymore?|
|I'm having a faith crisis (164) | Posted on July 3, 2012, 2:11 p.m.|
|You're also distinguishing between the faith that we "want" and the faith that we "have to accept"...but in the end, isn't that just a matter of "having to accept" something in order to make sense of what we "want"? |
That makes sense, though isn't quite what I was getting at. Let me try an analogy. My brain cells must metabolize glucose in order for me to stay alive. I also want to eat a couple slices of pizza and have a few beers tonight. It's true that both involve transferring energy around, but I don't think that means it's useful to point to a coma patient on an IV drip and saying he's doing logically or philosophically the same thing as me eating my pizza and beer.
Make it a little less extreme, and it's like a foodie, when explaining his love for food, telling one of those strict diet 'eat to live' type folks that we all gotta eat. Yea, we do, but when a foodie does it, it's a different thing than just slamming a protein shake. The 'eat to live' guy would call that gluttonous, and the foodie wouldn't really call what the other guy is doing eating. They're using the same word, but not talking about the same thing.
|What are you cooking for Fourth of July? (8) | Posted on July 3, 2012, 1:11 p.m.|
|Whatever's cheap at the store tonight. Money is tight this year, so we'll just make the best of what turns out to be affordable.|
Luckily a buddy homebrews, and has more beer than he can drink, so we'll be all set on that front.
|Scientists: 2012 is a glimpse of what climate change will bring to the US (26) | Posted on July 3, 2012, 12:43 p.m.|
|You know that super annoying thing climate change deniers do where they hold out one year of cool, mild weather as example that climate change is full of ****?|
Yea, I hate when they do that...
|Are there any here that won't play particular games for religious reasons? (42) | Posted on July 3, 2012, 11:46 a.m.|
^Interesting. How would you consider your experience with the game? I've heard really great things about it but I never played it
Sorry, missed this post.
It's a wonderful game, maybe one of the best ever made. The world is beautiful, the art compelling. Riding around the world was a great experience, and even the battles themselves were exciting. It's just that as the game wore on, I started to feel bad about what I was doing. I started feeling really guilty about it, so I stopped doing it.
To my mind, it's a testament to the game's greatness that evoked emotions powerful enough to make me stop playing.
|Do personal politics matter in restaurant/fast food choices? (8) | Posted on July 3, 2012, 9:53 a.m.|
|Sure, I'll do that.|
It usually comes down to how tightly the business is tied to the political activity I disprove of. If the CEO just has political opinions I don't agree with, that's his prerogative and I'm not going to stop buying food from him for that reason.
On the other hand, if corporate profits are being used for political purposes that I think are wrong, then yea, I'll stop giving them my money in order to keep it from being used for those purposes.
|Are there any here that won't play particular games for religious reasons? (35) | Posted on July 3, 2012, 9:48 a.m.|
Not to tell how you should play the game but Isn't there lots of things you do in video games that is amoral?
Sure, amoral, and lots of times straight up immoral as well. Sometimes I refrain from them in other games as well. Couldn't bring myself to play the airport level on MW2 the way you were meant to. Just walked through that one.
Other times, GTA for example, I'll get into the character enough that I can play from what I think their morality is, rather than what my own is. Sometimes I'll do the immoral bits for the sake of experiencing the story as well. Lots of times the game is just too, well game-like, and ethical considerations don't enter into it.
SotC though, I had invested too much of my own personality in the main character to continue.
|I'm having a faith crisis (158) | Posted on July 3, 2012, 9:41 a.m.|
This is the kind of post that keeps making me suspect you're a theist, kozlo :D
Bah, I've just spent a lot of time trying to understand positions that are not my own, but I'll take that as the compliment I believe it was intended to be.
In any case, I'm not sure the two faiths are even philosophically the same. The scientific kind basically boils down to the problem of induction, and thus forces one to grudgingly accept a single premise without proof because if you don't, nothing works. You take it on 'faith' that identical causes will lead to identical effects so that you don't need any faith in any other area.
Historical and legal faith is quite a bit looser, but of the same form. We can't usually actually repeat these events enough to get it to the scientific level, but the reasoning is the same.
Not really having religious faith, I can't say for sure what's at the core of it, but I do doubt that many religious folks would describe their faith as something accepted under a sort of duress due to human limitations.
I guess the long and short of it is that I think faith accepted because you have to is philosophically different from faith held because you want to.
|Are there any here that won't play particular games for religious reasons? (32) | Posted on July 3, 2012, 9:24 a.m.|
|Not exactly on topic, but I stopped playing Shadow of the Colossus because I felt it was unethical to be killing the colossi. I also personally consider that a valid conclusion to the game.|
If anyone is going to post what happens after the fourth or so colossi, use the spoiler tag, because I don't want to know.
|Woooo I'm living through almost total anarchy right now!!! (16) | Posted on July 2, 2012, 3:57 p.m.|
And I'm pretty sure you still experience weather in CA, just not winter.
You must live up north. Down here in southern California we just have mildly warm summer and mildly cool summer for our seasons.
|I'm surprised at the pull the Hovinds still have in my area. (18) | Posted on July 2, 2012, 3:43 p.m.|
|On the original topic, my guess is that they don't actually have any real clout to speak of, it's just a case of controversial issue + crazy person = news camera.|